Woman-Owned Wallet: The Podcast
The Woman-Owned Wallet is a bold, feminist marketplace that features goods from over 50 woman-owned brands. Founder and serial entrepreneur, Amanda Dare, has expanded her brand by creating a walking tour of other woman-owned shops in one of the most popular areas in Louisville, KY, and now, she is also encouraging conversations about money with women through Woman-Owned Wallet: The Podcast. Amanda shares honest conversations with a fellow woman in business to discuss all of their WOW money moments with their finances: both the good and the bad.
Woman-Owned Wallet: The Podcast
50 | Holly Hartman on Nurturing Connections, Trust, and Collaboration Among Women
Celebrating birthdays often means reflecting on the milestones of the past and the adventures yet to come. On this episode of the podcast the birthday girl & host, Amanda, is joined by Holly Hartman as they open up about the strength and resilience found in women supporting each other in business. With Holly's insights on the WO Network and her new work with the RAARE Women Collective, they underscore the importance of empowering connections across racial lines, fostering deep trust and showcasing models of effective collaboration.
As the conversation flows, they delve into the RAARE Woman Collective's relentless pursuit of racial equity, and how to facilitate crucial dialogues with their new conversation cards. The art of nurturing sisterhood is a theme touched upon with passion, sharing how personal struggles, including overcoming financial abuse and self-reflection, can lead to profound growth and authenticity. Holly's journey as a multi-passionate creator inspires one to examine the diverse ways we can cultivate personal and community connections, illustrating that our bonds and shared experiences can become powerful catalysts for change.
Wrapping up the episode, they celebrate the organic development of their local movements, harnessing personal strengths to spur transformation within their communities. It's an episode brimming with resilience, the power of connection, and the unwavering spirit of women ready to shape a world rich with opportunity and understanding!
Hey friends, welcome to Woman-Owned Wallet the podcast. I'm your host, amanda Dare, a serial entrepreneur who has already made all of the money mistakes, so you don't have to Now. I'm working on my money mindset, expanding my companies and having open conversations with women around a subject that shouldn't be so taboo money. My company, woman-owned Wallet, and I are determined to help you foster a more positive relationship with your wallet and help you create a life that makes you say wow, hey moneymakers, welcome back to another episode of Woman Owned Wallet the podcast. Today I am joined by one of my favorite people and on one of my favorite days, because today is actually my birthday. Oh my God, oh my God. I'm so excited. But I just had to get it out of the way because I'm an Aries and we love to be the leaders and have the attention. Are you surprised? So I have Holly Hartman here with me today. Holly, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I'm so excited and happy birthday.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to be here with you.
Speaker 1:She brought me a balloon y'all and like the sweetest card and my day has been made. That's all I needed. Oh, and the disco ball cups. You're so right, she gets me, she just gets me and it's the best. What's beautiful about Holly's and I, my relationship is that we just connect on a thousand things. So this will be a conversation that I think you'll really enjoy, just like being a fly on the wall in this little bestie conversation. But, holly, like, what is like the memory of like us meeting, like I love to tell people how we met because that's like our first little spark. For me, the like deepest memory is Galentine's last year, when you had the yellow dress on with like the white hearts and I was like this bitch is my chick. I fucking love her already because she loves a theme.
Speaker 2:And so do I. Oh yes, I am a sucker for a theme. However, our first interaction was at Show Up Summit.
Speaker 1:Oh right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were the emcee and I just loved your vibe. You went around and just hyped up the whole place and I was speaking on one of the panels and I was like I wanna be in her world. So I followed you. But it really wasn't until Gal Intensive's like yeah, I'm on anything she's doing, I'm on board.
Speaker 1:Aw well, and I feel the same. She was like posting on her Facebook group that we'll talk about soon the other day, like we're gonna have a new event, what do you think it's gonna be? And I said I don't care, I'm coming. Whatever it is, I'm coming. Oh my gosh, yeah, from I don't know childhood. Yes, we get to heal through Heal the inner little Holly and little Amanda through sharing our stories and feeling connection. I mean, I think people think of speakers as like, oh, they just want attention. It's not attention I want. I think people think of speakers as like they just want attention. It's not attention I want. I want connection.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't want to heal. I want to heal through my stories, so people know they're not alone.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, that's the best. Well, I feel like we really reconnected of like, okay, we like each other, yay. But then at the end of 2023, you and I were just like shared numbers and I was like I got her digits, yes. And then I was like, okay, I felt weird about an event and I was like who can I say this to? That won't like judge me in some weird way or make me feel some kind of way. So I texted Holly. I was like can I vent for a second? She was like, uh, yes, you can always. So I got it out and she was feeling the same way and we were like you know what? We don't really want to feel that way when we go to like a networking event. So then we realized, when we do events together or collaborate or connect with one another, like this is where it is for us and that's where it is for other people and that works for them wonderfully. But for me, the connection with you top notch.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and I felt that I was like oh, how giddy we get to like leveled up our relationship when we exchange digits, just like dating. I was like yeah, like this is my new business bestie.
Speaker 1:It felt like that, like we were almost like okay, is she cool? As cool as I think she is, she is that simple she is, so let's keep going with this. So then we started to work together in 2024 a little bit, because obviously we love each other, know each other. But let's talk a little bit first, because you're just a Jane of all trades. I got all the goodies going for you which I love about you, because, man, I can call you for anything and it's the best. But kind of get started a little bit with, like, the Woe Network. Tell us a little bit about that, because I think these girlies are going to want to join, because you can hang out with me and Holly.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love it. Well, it started from a place of I needed a space and I didn't feel like the space that I needed existed. And I do come from a trauma history background and so creating safe spaces for people to thrive, specifically women, was really important to me. And I met Izzy Nally, my co-founder, at Startup Week. I was like, well, where do I meet the people that, like, want to align with me as well? And her and I connected and we decided to create a group. We had another partner and we sense part ways just for alignment purposes, and we really have been able to organically create a group for women that we get to do it different. We just get to show up different and model what collaboration over competition looks like.
Speaker 2:It's an online community called the Woe Network Women Leaders of Louisville. So we empower multi-passionates. It seems to be that's who we're drawing in more and the Jane of all trades it's more. I'm a multi-passionate, which means I do a lot of things, but I love it. It brings me joy and we attract a lot of those women into our group and celebrate them. And we attract a lot of those women into our group and celebrate them. So we create a safe place for professional women to thrive.
Speaker 1:I love it. And I think that when you go to other networking events, for example, you're like do the elevator pitch and how can you condense it? And I'm not saying we shouldn't understand how to do that as well, but you don't feel that you have to do that. In the Woe Network, when someone steps up to speak or to introduce themselves, it's like and I have seven businesses and we're like woohoo Versus, like oh my God, I have to listen to this, or how do you do that? We don't challenge each other with it not being okay that you are multi-passionate, just like what you're saying.
Speaker 1:And I feel like the connection of feeling kind of like an outsider a lot of times, because people can be so focused in business on one thing, which is cool. I'm glad it works for them. It just never worked for me, and we had a beautiful episode with Jess Ambergy about being multi-passionate as well. So just go back and listen to that one too, because I think she really explains it in like a cool way, especially when you're a creative person and to me, creativity is just problem solving. It's just like that's all you gotta do. So everybody's actually creative and everybody actually solves problems.
Speaker 1:And when we think of ourselves as like, not creative. It's like, oh, now I'm like. Business is not creative. I'm like it's so creative in every single aspect. This is not creative. I'm like it's so creative in every single aspect. But when you go to those networking events and you do your elevator pitch and maybe you share your card or whatever with someone, it might lead somewhere, it might not. And with the Woe Network, I have felt more supported in who I am and not trying to fit. I heard Brene Brown saying like the opposite of belonging is fitting in, and fitting in is like you're trying to change yourself and mask up for like what am I going to show of myself today? And at the Woe Network, I feel that I belong, I love that, yeah, and it's grown so large.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we launched it a year and a half ago, and so, with the beauty of really implementing collaboration and empowering women to embody all of themselves in business and connection, and all of that, we now have 1,900 women. This is just local, this is just the Louisville Kentucky area. Wow, 1,900 women.
Speaker 1:That's showing yes, whoa and wow.
Speaker 2:It just shows the need that was there and because we're not a nonprofit, we're able to organically listen to the needs of the women and create instantly what is needed and really develop our community in a different way.
Speaker 1:I love that. So we started working together because we had space and you needed space and I was like I love connection, you do too. I know you're the right kind of people for me to be around all the time. So we've hosted a few things together already, but like three things together at this point and it's like April 19th. So like just imagine how much more we're gonna do. Like I'm obsessed and I think Holly and I appreciate each other because we also move quickly, like if I say I really am going to do something, I don't like half-ass it ever. I'm like let's go, let's run this. And you know, I feel like that's what I really appreciate about you and why I want to show up for you in the ways that you showed up for me. Actually, we've done four things together. Yes, we have Because of Galentine's too.
Speaker 2:Oh man, and then you helped me with Gathered Brilliance.
Speaker 1:We've done a lot together in a very short amount of time.
Speaker 2:We value efficiency, we do we do so?
Speaker 1:we did the Woe Network Founders event here, the Vision Board Workshop and the Vision Board Workshop for Woe Network. We did a Vision Board Workshop for a wow workshop, which we talked a little bit about in our wow factor collective episode. So check that out. And then we've also done the woe network was at Galentine's day as a vendor oh my gosh. And then Holly hosted an amazing event that let me just go back for a second.
Speaker 1:Galentine's. I was like so many beautiful people and we have an episode right before this one about Galentine's, like start to finish. But I really want to call out Holly because she showed up earlier than everybody, like already ready, already dressed. I was like getting my hair and makeup done and she was just there to put good intention into the space and you had asked me what I need.
Speaker 1:I was like I just need like the good vibes, because I am always anxious on Galentine's Day and you showed up and like I was walking around the space and you were like meditating and like I just felt all the good energy and you were set up before everybody else and then you started helping the other women set up and offering me help and I was just like this fucking girl. She's so cool and I couldn't not show up for your event and I wanted to give that same energy of like I can run shit, let's do it. Holly needs help, I'm here. I'm here, let's do it together. So, and you did, and I am so grateful. Well, thank you, and you did, so I'm so grateful. So the feeling is mutual. Wonderful. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the Gathered Brilliance event, because it was awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So back in November I actually joined Dr Nikki Lanier's event called the Rare Woman Collective, and that's about radical action advancing racial equity, and I learned a lot in that and in that program. I needed to create a legacy plan, and one of those things was I need to utilize my group to elevate Black-owned businesses in our community. And so I had a download in January and it was like, hey, holly, you're going to host a Black History Month event. And I'm like, okay, so you all can't see me, but I'm a white woman. And I'm like, really, this is what I'm supposed to like. I feel like I should empower in a different way, but it was all in divine alignment.
Speaker 2:I called in a bunch of women that are a part of the WOM network. Just a call out, a shout out hey, who wants to collaborate on an event? I had an idea, but I didn't know what I really wanted to be organic, of like I may have an idea, but they may have a better idea, so let's come together. And we had a Zoom meeting with all these amazing like there was eight, nine, 10 amazing Black women leaders that came on the call and then I quickly realized they all knew each other and I was the first one to show up to the party late and in 45 minutes we created an event concept, had the venue Within 10 days of the idea. We sold out the event. We were able to get sponsors. The beauty of it for me was that we were able to promote, share and amplify 20 Black-owned businesses in our community and the outreach that they were able to achieve, and then also got a live stream option.
Speaker 1:That was so cool.
Speaker 2:So it could go international and like what a beautiful gift of an idea showing our group being able to execute that. And within 10 days, so within month of the idea, we had an event that was powerful.
Speaker 1:It was so good and just being in the room for that event, like I don't know, just like the heart, like you could see all of it, the heart that went into it and you and I have chatted about this, so I just want to touch on it a little bit is that we are white women and we recognize, you know, the value of racial equity. I mean, there's so much that goes into that, obviously, but I felt, like during Black History Month specifically, that I was feeling a lot of not trust between Black women and white women a lot of times and I just say women, I think it's all people, but that's just what I heard. And in the situations I am mostly surrounded by women, was that, as a white woman myself, that's gone into, you know, working with Melanair Marketplace. There was I don't even know how many, maybe 50 Black-owned businesses that were trying to kind of get together to work with Nayshan Tribute. So it was like how can we get these Black-owned businesses to work with Melanar Marketplace? And Melanar Marketplace is so similar in the concept of supporting Black-owned businesses to wow, supporting women-owned businesses that Naishan and I are just like besties now.
Speaker 1:Salt and pepper Salt and pepper.
Speaker 1:We have our own little networking event salt and pepper on the same table. I'll get her on here and we'll chat about it for sure. But I hadn't found myself, as a white woman leader of Louisville, like understanding that the main part of that was trust. And I do feel that when, like even Neyshan, when we first met, we both loved each other from the second. We met each other, and I feel that way for you in a lot of situations with other black women. So it's like but we have to almost show up as white women saying, oh, you can trust this white woman. You know, I know it's difficult to trust because there's so many racial issues. However, we have to show up more than we might realize to help that trust build.
Speaker 1:And I feel like that's what is a missing piece a lot of times between black and white women, especially in business, because it feels like, oh, in business, you just want to sell me something and I'm like, no, I'm like trying to be your friend, like we'll make sales, we'll figure it out, but now, like, working together and having this energy around it, not just being for a transaction, is so important and I feel like that has been missing for a long time and I didn't realize it until maybe mid last year when I met Nayshan. And then you know, she kind of comes forward and tells her community about like I trust Amanda and they trust her and so that helps them say, okay, I can give Amanda a little bit of trust. But then I have to prove it to them as well and make sure that what I say, what I do, just like you and I have said before, like we're efficient, we get shit done, we. I don't want to mess around Like. I fucked around and found out plenty of times.
Speaker 1:I'm old enough to figure out like or not. Old enough but experienced enough to know what's going to work and what's not, and what my capabilities are and what they aren't. And I don't want to promise something and then let someone down, no matter their race. But I feel like that's happened a lot, just from what I've heard, kind of in my own perception. So when I was like speaking with some women, I was just like, oh, trust, and trust starts with connection and that's what you and I love.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that is the theme that I hear over and over again to the point that we're actually gonna start Sisterhood Circles. We're gonna be talking about this developing trust and how to navigate that Brené Brown talks a lot about that I love her.
Speaker 1:You know I love her too. She did a lot for my healing journey.
Speaker 2:But trust is such an element and you know, you and I we talk a lot about collaboration and trust is such a big element of that and that's why a lot of people are not doing it well or have not had as much success in it is because they don't focus on that trust building and that trust isn't always automatic or given. And then you're also having to build the trust on past experiences they've had with other people. And what you and I do well and I think this is what's happening is that we're modeling it to other women how to do it, because I could say it out loud, but until you experience it and go, oh, that's how you can do it, and just know that it's just a start, that trust is something that's built Exactly and we have to be consistent and we have to show up in the way, like you said, if I'm telling you I'm going to do that, that I actually follow through, not the other way around.
Speaker 1:And it's even as small as like I'm telling you I'm going to support you by cheering you on. It's not like small, as like I'm telling you I'm going to support you, like by cheering you on. It's not like I'm telling you I'm going to do like, do what you can do. Everybody has a role to play, but for us, like, we're going to put out love, we're going to put out good energy, and when someone needs a little bit of that, they know that they can come to us. That's what I'm, even as small as like those little nuggets of like beautiful gold, you know that become like the trust that's built over time. You have a gold mine, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well, as you were talking, one thing that I think people miss on the trust level is many of us have had to mask and we've had to do it for survival, right, and that happens with white women, black women, all people, right, we all like neurodivergent, you know, we all have learned to survive in this world by masking.
Speaker 2:The problem with masking is that that is a barrier to trust, because we can feel other people and you may say something, but then they can feel the energy is not in alignment because there's a mask there and there's fear and it's ways that we've protected ourselves and so forth. But that's the element of trust that I feel like we're doing. We're showing up and are authentic, and so that's, I guess, the nugget that just came to mind that I'm like, really important to bring home, is that we and that's why we love multi-passionate women, because you're showing up as your authentic self You're big, bodacious, scary, all the things, not perfect self because that's who I want to know. I want to know all of you so I can embrace all of you, and that helps me build that trust.
Speaker 1:I completely agree and I feel like that's part of it is like, oh, I don't have to mask here and as people that you know, when we think a lot about like racial equity, like of course there's more masking than we realize, oh for sure. So it's been really interesting and I just want to touch on this as we're here. But you talked a little bit about the Rare Woman Collective and I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about, like your journey, because now you got like some cool vibeys going on with Dr Nikki and you've got this really cool conversation card set that I would love for people to know about.
Speaker 2:Oh, awesome. Well, thank you for that invitation. Yes, so the Rare Woman Collective was created a little over a year ago but they hosted their first live event in November and it's led by Dr Nikki Lanier. She's an international racial equity advisor and she worked for the Federal Reserve. She's a lawyer. I mean, this lady, holy moly, like. She is beautifully eloquent in every way and her motives are just pure and loving. And she's a black woman teaching white women about racial equity. And I know for myself I didn't feel safe to. I didn't know where I could learn or who I could ask and I'm like I'm not trying to have the black woman teach me how to do this. So, like she creates a safe container for us to learn.
Speaker 2:Well, at that event we were inspired to create a legacy plan, and part of my legacy plan was one to host events and use my group. The other was creating racial equity cards and conversation cards, because in my own practice as a coaching consultant, I use connection cards to help build the conversation so I can get deeper with people, and so I had the idea, a download, like hey, I think I need it. And she was like, oh, okay, so she was on board with my thoughts. I designed them based on her brand, and the conversations help us start the conversation.
Speaker 2:Change happens when we have a conversation, but if we don't know how to start the conversation, change happens when we have a conversation, but if we don't know how to start the conversation, change can't happen, and so this is just a tool to help you to talk at home, in your community or at work about racial equity, because it's not like you go up to your friend like, hey, have you thought about? No. So the cards take the stigma out, they take the defensiveness out. They create an opportunity for you to think about your own beliefs and challenge them and go oh, maybe there's a way that I can help make this different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's interesting because you can even have a conversation with yourself. Yeah, they're self-reflective, exactly so it's like even if you're interested in like, okay, well, where are my thoughts lying with this specific question? Like, maybe start with yourself if you're even nervous to get going. And I know that you have some rules of conversation in there and I would love to talk through them a little bit because I thought that was also really awesome, because a lot of times, the way I think about listening and conversations is you listen to understand, you don't listen to respond. And if I'm having a conversation with someone who's just listening so that they get their words in and not listening to help understand each other, then that's not a conversation I know is going anywhere. So that's where my mindset always goes and I feel like this set of rules was so smart to add into there. So, if you'll, my mindset always goes and I feel like this set of rules was so smart to add into there.
Speaker 2:So, if you'll, read them off, because I'm obsessed- Absolutely, and these actually came from Dr Nikki Lanier's event. Great, this is what she teaches. Amazing, because a lot of us have not known how to do discussion well. Yes, and discussion, this is what it is. So, respecting all perspectives, because we don't know what the life they have lived or the person that you're talking to. So let's just respect each other. Avoid criticizing specific groups, because a lot of times we'll be like oh, it's the white man's problem. No, we're not going to criticize, like that's not what the purpose of the discussion and it's not productive and it's not going to move us forward. So we're only going to talk to the people that are actually here in front of us, not the people that aren't in the room having the discussion. Don't self-deprecate, because a lot of white women are like I am so sorry that I'm white. No, we don't have to self-deprecate, you know we get to. Just, this is who I am, this is what I'm willing to learn and move forward.
Speaker 2:Remain open-minded. We don't know everything and we don't know everything. And what a blessing, because my brain would explode if I knew everything right Same. So you know, remain I'm overwhelmed with what I do now. Right, so be open-minded to other perspective, other thoughts, other people's experiences. I love this Choose grace over perfection. Not a single one of us is perfect, so let me extend some grace in this conversation that maybe your experience hasn't been as you had a different one, your perspective's different, so I want to hear that, like you, don't have to have a perfect response. Each card may spark something that you think about later on. You don't have to have a perfect response in that moment.
Speaker 1:Right, and it does feel often that when we're talking about this or in these situations that I mean, we're talking about masks too. Like walls are up, masks are up. What if I do say the wrong thing? And I appreciate that grace for sure.
Speaker 2:And everybody needs to be in agreeance. This isn't just saying, oh, I'm saying this so that no, like this, these are like kind of our own agreements to have this conversation. Be curious and not judgmental. Now, I say that a lot just in my own personal being. I think it's so important that if we come from a place of curiosity and not judgment, holy moly, like people feel seen, they feel heard, they feel like valued in who they are in that moment and don't have to be the guru, the knowledge of everything, but just be curious because you can learn something from every single person.
Speaker 2:And then the last three, I'll just go quickly stay present, because sometimes we want to disassociate, because that's just our trauma and it's fight, flight, freeze. We don't want to be in those uncomfortable moments. So just allow yourself to feel and stay present and be okay with that. And if you've got to schedule self-care afterwards, do that. Listen actively, like you just mentioned. That's so important. And then seek truth for yourself, like what's true for me, and be open to expanding what that looks like. So these guidelines are in each card deck so anybody that's facilitating it can really stay in alignment with what is the true purpose of Rare.
Speaker 1:I'm so like filled with joy that I'm even in the room with you and Dr Nikki, like, I think, for a long time, like we have mentioned, you know, as white women, it's like, well, I don't expect black people to teach me everything that I need to know, I need to do my own work and I've been, you know, reading about white feminism and understanding that so much. But it's so interesting to just sometimes I felt left out of the conversation because I mean, we're oppressed, oppressors, like I'm dealing so much with, you know, misogyny and really struggling through that, that I can understand part of the experience and I obviously cannot understand all of it. And I I'm so excited to kind of have that grace and have that space. Like you're saying, we do need white women because, as I said, I think, at the Salt and Pepper event within the patriarchy, if we keep dividing ourselves down. So so far, and of course, all of our experiences are incredibly different based on our race. But so many other things too, socioeconomic, socioeconomic class we have different. I mean, there's just a thousand differences. I don't know if I really need to list them, but you know, gender identity, like sexual orientation, just all of these things To me when I really keep going back up to see what the view is.
Speaker 1:It's that when we divide amongst ourselves and fight amongst ourselves or don't feel that we have the connection, maybe it's not even fight, it's just fight the connection that we can have about our similarities we're doing the work of the patriarchy. It's like trying to keep us divided so that we don't work together, so that we don't help each other, so that basically the ideas of patriarchy can stay. And if we're doing the fighting for them because of these things, I'm like I don't need any extra work, like let's just hang out and get as far as we can get today and know that that's as far as we got today. There's more to learn, there's more to do. Just understanding that by connecting with one another, building trust with one another and growing together is a way of really pushing the matriarchal and women-centered, then women-centered is a lot about caring for ourselves, a lot about caring for others, and I just didn't want to be left out of the conversation of.
Speaker 1:There's also a lot of personal experiences that I've had that have been really negative, and I think sometimes the way I viewed it was that black women would speak to me but like think that I look successful, so I must not have any problems. And I was like, hold up, check out this podcast, listen to all the ways I fucked up stuff, like you know or like, and it was mostly women in business, because obviously that's where so much of my world is. But it was interesting to always kind of feel left out of the conversation or that there was a lot of judgment put upon myself as well and I was like I want to make sure that this is a two-way street and not out of any kind of self anything. But I just didn't want to be like viewed as or seen as like towards myself as somebody that wasn't a part of the conversation and I was like oh, this is a conversation. If we're going to change this socially, we got to keep talking and I just didn't always feel like that was a safe space, just like what you're saying.
Speaker 1:So I really appreciate Rare Women Collective and I'm excited. And now you're saying so I really appreciate Rare Women Collective and I'm excited. And now you're working a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yes, I just became the new director of Rare. You guys? Yes.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh obsessed.
Speaker 2:Thank you. It's exciting and I guess for me, on that, it's the testament of just showing up, like I did the cards, without any agenda, like just knew that I needed this tool. I want to create the tool. I gave her the idea, she helped us execute it and then just all the other things that are coming about. There was not an agenda other than I feel called to do it in whatever way that shows up and it just organically made sense. And that is that's where I want to be. I want to be in the flow of what makes sense for me and the people that I work with, that it's a win-win for all of us and that it's a no brainer for us to do these things together, and so I'm grateful to be a part of it, have passion with it. But if you'd asked me back in November, I didn't know that this was the thing. So I'm still new in this concept, but I'm open and willing. And what a beautiful gift because there's a lot of people that have burned out in this space and I'm coming in with a fresh perspective, fresh eyes and my own trauma history that I have done my healing work in. Because, like you said, there's a lot of parallels in the trauma, yes, and so I can see it and I can understand it and I can meet them at where they're at, versus coming from a different perspective, and so I think those are so important for what we're trying to create and develop in our communities. No matter where you're listening from, you know we get to show up in that way, and I'll share with you too. It's this organic growth that can happen quickly if we get out of our own way.
Speaker 2:When we hear this was a divine download, all of these things of like oh me, who me? All right, why not? A lot of us will filter that out and go, no, not me. We have imposter syndrome. Who am I to do this? Why should? Who are you not Like? It's a calling. It wasn't a thought that I've been thinking about all day. It was like it came All right, let's see what we can do. I threw it out there, and what I saw on that call when I brought those women on for the Gather Brilliance concept is I saw a sisterhood of black women that they already had, and what I was trying to build with the WOM network was women leaders, and what I saw were the women leaders I want to cultivate in our group, but they were light years ahead of where we're trying to and I was like, oh, that was a humble pie.
Speaker 1:The sisterhood is light years ahead. Holy moly. It is so interesting and they had to Absolutely To thrive, to survive.
Speaker 2:They had to. But us white women, we have segregated and soloed ourselves. Yeah, it's very individual and soloed ourselves. Yeah, it's very individual, yeah, where they have a sisterhood. I'm like I can learn so much and I'm so grateful. And since then, our group is so much more diverse, with everyone, Like we hosted an event last night and it was like half and half, yeah, yeah, holy moly. Six months ago, that was not it. And so, and the energy they're like we've never experienced anything like this. It's because we're cultivating a culture where all of us have a space.
Speaker 1:Completely agree and I feel like you even put words to stuff I was trying to say before you spoke and I more than appreciate that because I was just like what is missing and for me it was always sisterhood.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you listen to this podcast, you know that that's a major part of my journey and that's what I'm trying to attract, but also my trauma. So it's like I'm trying to face it until I make it you know kind of vibe. But it was interesting and actually I want to call back to Show Up Summit really quickly when I was at that event with JD Graham Graham yes, jd Graham and Laura Muir, and they were hosting again. It's a diverse group of women that came together and I heard at that event probably for the first time because I believe it was right after COVID, maybe 2021 or something that I was at that one where I was like dropping it low in my pink jumpsuit at one point and there was a black woman that I had just met at the time and she was like, oh my gosh, like you're my people, like I wouldn't have met you if I didn't come to this.
Speaker 1:And I wasn't sure about coming to this because I knew that it was going to be so diverse, like I'm more comfortable in rooms with black women and that was maybe even something I hadn't thought about until this moment again, that, oh, it has been coming for a while and especially in like a small town mentality that Louisville has, but we're trying to act like this big city, which we are a city, I mean we're a fancy city, but it just feels like there's still so much small town mentality and so much segregation and separation that even knowing that we're both yearning for it in like an interesting way and I mean I think a lot of times it might start with the women because we're the connection and we bring a lot with us, like we're saying we bring a lot of sisterhood together. So it's just a really beautiful experience and like, I think, being two leaders here in Louisville and like and being white women and experiencing something that is similar to the concept of knowing that the sisterhood we need to create isn't diverse because it should be diverse, like it's, because it's like on paper it looks good, like fuck that. Right, the connection is what feels good, it feels right, you know, it feels open. It just the feeling of it is like the yearning for that sisterhood doesn't mean we're white women checking off a box of DEI which has been a major complaint of the black women we've been in rooms with. It's like there was so much focus on it during COVID. Now we're out of COVID, what are we doing?
Speaker 1:And kind of seems like what you're saying and I hope I'm saying this right is like there's so many burnt out people in the DEI space and a lot of them are black women and so if we're like oh shit, like I need to step up, not because I need to step up to check off the box, but like I fucking care, I care about my community, I care about people, I care about connection, I care about trust and for me to feel safe in my world and be in a world that I want to exist in, I need all those things and I agree with you Like there's so much that we're missing out on when we're not together and it's just frustrating that we I don't want to say it's frustrating, it's going, vibey, it's going good, but is frustrating, it's going, vibey, it's going good.
Speaker 1:But it has been frustrating to me that it's the time that it takes to kind of get here and then, at our Salt and Pepper networking event that we had, like we were speaking about kind of this time and space and this is the time to come together, especially as women, as people that understand trauma as well, like I think that that's something, like you said, that really opens up doors, because we've not trusted, we've had our trust broken.
Speaker 1:It's difficult for us, but we're still trying to like connect and trust with people because we know that's the way through, and so I'm just like it's so interesting because that moment in time is here. So, in any way that you feel, like you said called, utilize your voice, utilize your heart and your mind to say this is where I can add and multiply and take the imposter syndrome out of it. Like all they can do is say no, all they can do is not move the way you want to move, and there's other people out there that you can find to do that with, absolutely. So, yeah, I just really appreciate the conversation that we can have again as friends, as leaders and in our community. We've seen really big movement and big trust being built with women and I'm just fucking excited.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so cool and it's organically unfolding, it's not forced, Agreed. And one thought that I had when you were sharing is just this idea of saying yes and showing up is huge, like if you're thinking, oh, who am I, I can't start this conversation, just showing up sometimes is all you have to do and I'm really. Oh good, download the show up summit. We go back to that, I know. Show up, show up, it's just show up.
Speaker 1:They're so right. We love Jadie. Lauren, we love you. Yeah, shout out, we love you. Yeah, Lauren has an episode on our podcast as well. Awesome, because she's amazing, she's amazing.
Speaker 2:She spoke on some of my panels. I love her. What that was several years ago and I don't know what came from it. You realize, as I'm downloading and hearing, there are four women since that other event that I'm now collaborating with that were a part of that event. No way, oh my gosh. Yeah, in different ways different. They've come to my events. We've coordinated in other events and one big project that might be coming up.
Speaker 2:I showed up two years ago and didn't know that this is the role I'll be taking now, so you don't have to already be somewhere to show up first, that things can come up later. And I grieved after that event because I saw the sisterhood Lauren had and I actually sent her a message and said I love how people show up for you. I had one person show up for me that day and it was so vulnerable to go. I don't have that community. I've built it now. I didn't have it then. But she modeled in that moment what sisterhood looked like and what showing up actually looked like and I saw the stark difference.
Speaker 1:You're so right. I think I felt such similar feelings and, yeah, even like we were both there and look what we're doing right now.
Speaker 2:And it's all in divine timing. We don't have to force it.
Speaker 1:Timing is fucking everything, and I think that's a major part about collaborations that we've talked about before as well is just, some people come and want to do something right now and right this second and don't get me wrong like I can get excited about something before, but again been around long enough and experienced enough to know it takes a lot of time to get a collaboration just right.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and I mean it's just, it's so, so important, and I know that you have your kind of new keynote Keynote vibe-ies. Actually, real quick, before we move on, we are going to have the Rare Woman Collective cards, the conversation cards in WOW. Might not be by the date this comes out, but I want you to keep an eye out for that. And if you do own a boutique, a shop, have an online store, have a presence if you want to invest in the wallets of women and the wallets of women that are really trying to make these massive shifts. All together, this product and this card and this conversation starter are you kidding me? I can't think of a better way, thank you Cannot think of it.
Speaker 1:There is no tool out there like this Agreed. I've never seen anything like that and I mean I just want to make a million conversation cards and since we've talked about it, I've been like looking for other ones and I'm like man, cause I love to fucking talk, so like let's All the things, and I'll design them and create them and manufacture them.
Speaker 1:They're amazing, yeah. And if you need cards, if you need conversation cards, and you're like, okay, well, where's the neurodivergent one that I've been like hoping for? Okay, call Holly, got you. Yeah, I'm like, where's the one for a woman on wallet? Let's get going, you know. So, like there's tons of opportunities to work with Holly in that way and she's a beautiful graphic designer as well. Like that is so I love brands. That is so on brand to rare, like obsessed.
Speaker 2:She did a beautiful job. Personal brand coaching is one of my important like I want to embody what your brand is and put that out in the world.
Speaker 1:So let's get in a little bit to collaboration. I mean, I know this podcast is about money, but obviously one way to put money in the world as a woman is to collaborate. So can we talk a little bit about what like kind of successful collaboration looks like? And she's got a really great acronym as well Share whatever you feel right. Sharing, feel good sharing today. But there's so many ways that I feel like that collaboration can really benefit these women's wallets. So let's see how to do it, like you said, like the way that works for both parties, a healthy way to do it, healthy, yes.
Speaker 2:So using this model is what's helped us develop our group. Yes, so using this model is what's helped us develop our group, grow our group to 1,900 women in a year and a half. Like that is an insane amount of local not global like local women willing to invest in themselves into our group. So what I call it is growth through collaboration. So I, you know, use a little acronym, so G is gathering ideas. So you wanna hear what does your community need? What can you bring? Brainstorm, like I did for the Gathered Brilliance event. Come and let's have a conversation. I may have an idea, but do you have a better idea? Let's figure out what's needed and create it. So generate these ideas together.
Speaker 2:Resource sharing oh my gosh, so many of us are solo people trying to make it all work and we think we have to wear a gazillion hats. But what if? What if we start to actually resource share of like, oh, you have amazing podcast equipment here. How can I motivate other people to do this? But like it makes sense for them? How can we resource share, meaning somebody has a venue, like you've done for us, and then we can host an event and we bring people in that are like-minded, that are your clientele. What are ways that we can resource?
Speaker 1:share. I think that's one of the major things, because even you know, as we again kind of bring this back to wallets like you have something yes, maybe you feel that you don't I would really deep dive and say what are all the things I do have? Do I have time Right? Do I have no time? You know, like, make yourself a little list. And or do I have, like you said, an event space? Do I have podcast equipment? Can I draw? Do I have the audience Cook? Do I have the audience Like?
Speaker 1:What kind of random skills and I know that from we Should All Be Millionaires. That's like one of the ways to get the next 10,000 like into your life is like, literally, can I babysit? Can I do laundry? Can I like I'm talking about not just what skills do I have in business, but what skills do I have in life and what are things that if that person hates laundry but loves dishes, can they come over and do dishes in my house and I go do laundry at their house or whatever it is there.
Speaker 1:There's going to be some bartering and that you have posted this as well on the woe network and I was obsessed with it. I was telling our team like I needed some things and cashflow was slow and Q1 for a retail shop. So, like I'm like dang, I needed some like product photography. And now I'm trading Angie for, yeah, I'm like obsessed, and she wanted to have a studio space because she's new in town and didn't have a studio space.
Speaker 1:I was like I got space, let's do it so you can find something that you can provide, that the value feels right to exchange. Like the energy feels right, the value feels good for both of you. Like that resource sharing is something that women I think could really utilize in a way that would propel us forward beyond our dreams. You know, like it's just so interesting how we feel like we have to hold on to it all, or like I have to get everything right just by myself. I'm like fuck that. No, we're gonna work together. It takes a village to also raise a kid, they say, but also like to raise yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, the connection you get with it too and you get to grow through their skills. You may not even know that and you bring people in, you get to see it and model it. And I just had a download so I cannot keep my house clean Like I am not and like I'm organized in so many other areas but my house is not one of them. Neuro spicy Hello, thank you, but I just had a download. I'm like I could offer coaching, consulting. Come and just body double with me. We'll clean and organize my house and I'll coach you. Listen Like who wants to barter with that? I do.
Speaker 1:Because I love to clean I'm not going to lie, but I also love to clean other people's houses.
Speaker 2:I could do anybody else's all day long. It's my own that I like I have a block, but like maybe I'm just going to start throwing that out there, like who wants a piece of my brain? Yeah, and come help me clean and organize my house.
Speaker 1:I want you to help me with summer camp and I'm going to come clean your house. Yay, all right Deal, see it can be that easy, that easy y'all, and we can do it at the same time. Like especially like I'm so good at laundry, like I mean, being the fashion design background, I'm like I love to take care of clothes. I'm like you need stuff steamed. You need it, like, handled. I'll bring my own steamers profesh over, I'm feeling a little bubbly inside, a little tingle.
Speaker 1:You're like you'll steam my clothes. I guess All the things You'll steam my clothes. Yes, ma'am, I will, I will. I don't know where that came from, it's probably that Memphis upbringing. But yeah, resource sharing, I feel so. It just feels so interesting. But make sure that the value, energetically the value, makes sense for both of you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and that's why I have the rest of the framework, because that's really important. The rest of it is open communication. Yeah, so the O in growth. The O in growth is open communication. So you have to come up with, like, how do you communicate? Is it via text? Is it email? Is it like what's your cadence Do? Is it email? Is it like what's your cadence? Do you want to talk every day? Do you want to talk once a week? Like, what does that look like? Because everybody works different. I need people that work high speed, like efficient. I work with Cynthia Lee on the Gathered Brilliance and Omen. Love her. We were like in sync and our communicate. I was like, love this, but I can't work with people that it'll take you a week to get back to me, like I've already, I've already light years, I've already done so much by that time. Like we're not going to work. And then you're going to feel left out of the collaboration, like your voice wasn't heard. You got to be in the party with me, right? But not everybody's that way. So how is your communication style?
Speaker 2:Win-win scenarios, and it's not always dollar for dollar, like when you're bartering. What's the win-win here? Like, maybe it's I get your audience or you create the space for me and I bring people here Like what does that look like? You got to create win-win and like so, a published author getting their book. I spoke to a guy today. He got his book connected to a coffee shop that every time they bought the gift card they got his book and they were like, well, how does that he goes? No, now I have more readers, I have more people that know about my book, that can give reviews. That is worth the investment for me. And most people think it's dollar for dollar and it's not Agreed. I think dollar for dollar is one of the biggest things that holds us back. It's an energy exchange, not a dollar for dollar.
Speaker 1:Well, because we feel like I mean again women's work, quote unquote. I mean I have a book right here that says it but like women's work is not valued at the same dollar amount as other work and we're out of the homework. And one thing you just said is like okay, so we would even be exchanging work at your home. You know, for me to come and like vibe, organize whatever, do laundry, clean, Like I'm obsessed, I would be happy to do that. But also, like your mind, you know, and like knowing how much structure you can put into something, helping me make sure summer camp just runs like so beautifully. And don't worry, I know you guys are like what the fuck is summer camp? Don't worry, we kind of have a whole episode about it, but yeah, it's coming.
Speaker 1:So like I'm just kind of finalizing those details and I've run events that were, you know, had 500 plus attendees and had, I mean, you were at Galentine's, you've seen we run and we take care of people. It's epic. But this is a different shift and in my mind, like we've had conversations with the team, it was similar to Galentine's Day in the operational side of it the organization, but it's different enough and it would be our first one, that I just want to make sure I'm like I got all my you know T's crossed dot, all my I's, all of that, and I think it would help me to even understand how to utilize the language. Or just I just need some like brainstorming time to get it out of my head and out of that visual place so like we aren't valuing it per dollar the way that it's like it's never gonna work that way.
Speaker 1:So energy, like you said, perfection. And if it doesn, like it's never going to work that way. So energy, like you said, perfection. And if it doesn't, things feel different to people. So I would also take that time to like write down all of the things you value, you know, and when you're working on, oh, what are all the things I have, but what are all the things not that I need but that I value, and start to like trade it. And all these conversations she's talking about are conversations Holly and I have had openly, like you said, open communication win-wins that gather ideas Like this is something that we go through, and just hearing that you've like lined it up with this beautiful acronyms, I can like fucking remember it. It's amazing. So what is the T?
Speaker 2:The T is trust development. Oh bingo word, we were talking about earlier Trust development and that takes time right. So sometimes and I've done collaborations where I'm like, whoa, we'll never do that again, but that's fine, I learned from it. There's no shame in that Like okay, then we weren't in alignment. I thought we were.
Speaker 2:Words mean different things to different people. That's okay, or maybe we can. But could we do it different and that'll help build the trust? And part of the trust is giving feedback, and that feedback isn't always easy, but it allows us to grow, like us women. Oh my God, we are chronic people pleasers and can we stop? That's a mask. Can we just show up in our authenticity and say you know what? This didn't work for me, or it didn't feel good in my body, or it wasn't an alignment. This time Can we do it differently? Are you open to that? If not, thank you for this experience and I wish you the best in the thing. That's alignment for you. But that's how we build trust with like, authentic, honest conversation, not judgment, just showing up as like what is actually true for me in this moment. How can I grow from it and then move from that?
Speaker 2:And so all of that is necessary and most of us are afraid of confrontation, don't want to say the real thing, and then we feel it all in our body and our body will tell us, like I get hives and things like that, if I'm not showing up in my authentic self, like, oh, I get you, bobby, thank you for telling me, or you gain weight or you do all these things because we're not living in alignment. So trust, some of it, starts with us. Do I trust myself to have that honest, open conversation? Yeah, because if we don't trust ourselves by God, it's hard to trust other people. So we got to develop that for ourselves first and then start practicing it.
Speaker 1:She's saying everything I always need to remember and I'm sure you're like, you know, maybe not writing down notes, maybe listening to your car, but you're just like, of course, holly, you're so right and it's just like that repetitive. You know you need to hear these things a lot and you need to hear them often and you need to be validated in that these things are real and trusting yourself is a major one of them. Like I love that you. It's always kind of bringing it back to the person that you are and not just giving, giving, giving but collaboration really being that beautiful energetic exchange between two people. But the communication, the trust, I'm just I think I'm just over here, like in my head, just clapping and just being like preach, holly, preach it. Like I'm obsessed. So what's the last one on there?
Speaker 2:Well, the beautiful gift is if you start with the G, and then the R, and then the O and the W and the T.
Speaker 2:Yes, because this is a progressive thing that comes. The last one is harnessing synergy, and what that means is really like when all these other things are working, it can be an ease and flow. This does not have to be hard. You're harnessing the synergy of all of the gifts of everybody involved. You're inclusive of different ideas and that in itself builds that momentum and that synergy. And when you experience synergy, it is a high and I'm talking like and Cynthia and I had this one we were doing Gathered Brilliance we're like, oh my gosh, this is like. This is so easy and most people outside looking in be like these ladies are nuts to try to get this done in one month. But you can do great things when you are in that energy of synergy and if you harness it, the sky's the limit.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So G-R-O-W-T-H, Like I feel like this needs to be like your next book.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, well, it might be. We're going to do something on collaboration, so, yeah, probably Watch out y'all Watch out, you're just and y'all.
Speaker 1:I mean, I feel like, again, we've talked about a few of Holly's gifts but, being that multi-passionate person, she's also an author. I mean, and I was like shit, I'm trying to be an author and like I don't know, I just I found that the speaker, the coach, the and trauma-informed coach as well, like I, there's just there's a thousand things and that's why I don't like you know, have you heard that phrase where it's like, if you want to, if you want to grow up to be a butcher, like that's all you'll ever become or you know whatever, but if you want to grow up to be curious, like you're saying like curious is one of my favorite words. I think of myself as like a curious artist, like I just want to learn, I just want to grow from it and like gather kind of these experiences, to know that I can trust myself, to know that I like can handle anything that's around my way. I can, you know, go from sign language, interpreting and singing to fashion design, to owning event spaces. You can do anything if you put that time and energy into yourself, and there's just so much that we're missing from that a lot. So sometimes some of these words can feel a little overused or whatever. I mean just growth is, as a word, it's such a buzzword, but it's for a fucking reason. Is, as a word, it's such a buzzword, but it's for a fucking reason. And when you break it down of what it really means and like you attach it especially into these other moments of your life, like collaboration within the Woe Network, nope, oh my God, woe Network has been like such a beautiful thing and, again, I've probably collaborated with more people in there than I have in any other group that I've been a part of. So, like definitely join the Facebook group for the WO network, w-o network.
Speaker 1:I just feel like you might hear these things and think I've heard this, yada, yada, but it's not the hearing, it, it's the practice of it, it's the daily understanding of like like I used to be annoyed when I was like, oh, of course they're right, you just like have to like eat healthy and like work out and like stretch and like get up early and like I didn't feel any of that was like in alignment for me and you know you just have to spend time with yourself and all of that and I'm like well, part of my spending time with myself is like listening to my true crime while I play Sims. Like if I don't take that time for myself, then I'm like I'm not my best leader, I'm not my best Amanda, I'm not the best wife, I'm not the best sister daughter. I'm not the best business owner, I'm not the best singer, I'm not the best artist, I'm not the best creative that I can be.
Speaker 1:So really taking that time first to go through this growth for yourself, I think is really important, and then also attaching that growth with collaboration of how can you be there and show up and show someone and model it for someone of what it can really look like, because they might have a lot of trauma around what collaboration has looked like for them before. Oh for sure. Oh, my God, I'm positive they do. I mean, I feel like we're just in this healing era. We are and we heal through relationships.
Speaker 2:You can read a book all day long, but until you start taking action, nothing really changes. We have to practice it. We got to implement and go oh, body, I didn't die. Okay, you can do it again.
Speaker 1:It's okay. You're just. Sometimes I mean okay, so listen, taylor Swift's new album came out today. Oh, sometimes I mean okay, so listen, taylor Swift's new album came out today. Oh yeah, and there's a song that you should listen to that I think would be good for this. Literally everyone listening should listen to it. Is I Do it Heartbroken? That might not be the exact words. I'm getting a lot of text messages that are happy birthdays it's cute, cute, cute, cute.
Speaker 1:Celebrate. Don't forget to celebrate. I know I'm really excited. I'm getting so much good. We're going to Cincinnati this weekend. I can do it with a broken heart, oh yes. So listen to that, because she in that she even talks about like doing it through everything, still showing up through everything Like no one. And I'm not saying a little bit of that is probably masking, but like I'm saying like you can show up for yourself when you're upset, when you're depressed, when you're happy, when you're confused, like all the things. You can show up for yourself in all of those things. And you can take a walk every day and like know that that walk you might be feeling some kind of way. I used to just go on all feelings and I'm like, well, if the habits are built, then you know the feelings kind of go along with that and it's stabilized a few things for me. But I really thought it was interesting that you know how you approached it and I appreciate, with my little ADD brain, like I need words with letters, instruction.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we buck structure, but we also love it. So it's finding that balance of what that looks like. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Agreed. So, as we're kind of like discussing, you know, putting money in the wallets of women, talking through money stories, like I think we've learned so much already, but I just want to learn and show off you a little bit more, holly. So let's go back a little bit like little Holly just vibing, being her cute little redhead self, I'm sure, wearing the cutest outfit Always in red, always in red. You wear a lot of blue too. You look great in blue, thank you. Yeah, thank you. I bet you'd look really good in like a forest green.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ooh, hot, yeah. All the like the jewel tones.
Speaker 1:Jewel tones. Well, what's kind of one of your listen. You know I love me some fashion Her closet y'all because I did see it. Her overflow closet was bigger than my closet and I love me some outfits, but I don't think I've seen you wear the same thing twice. You probably haven't. So you're very fancy with it. I'm like I aspire to be as cool as Holly. But what was like little Holly's like kind of first memories with money, like were you saving pennies in a piggy bank, were you getting paid for chores, like tell me a little bit about like those memories of being young and like how they've kind of affected you today.
Speaker 2:I actually had a finance coach have me take me through a meditation where I came to like this anchoring moment which was really, really enlightening for me. So my parents did give me an allowance. I don't recall doing anything necessarily for the allowance, but we had an allowance and so I saved. I was a saver back then and my brother is two and a half years older than me and we have a really good relationship and I love him very dearly and I remember him coming to me and saying Holly, I wanna buy this Casio TV. So I'm in my late forties.
Speaker 1:And so it was like this little.
Speaker 2:So when my parents took us to garage sales cause that's, we were like the budget finder people and we'd be in the back seat watching his like two by three inch Casio TV, like black and white, watching the Saturday cartoons yeah, oh, yeah. So like, okay, so you want me to give you all of my savings so you can buy this thing, you know. So he was very much like, whatever the new tech was even back then, even still today, like I want to invest in that. But so I gave it to him and then I didn't have anything left.
Speaker 2:Fast forward to marriages where there was financial abuse. I was grown in the concept of I give, I overgive, to please and to maintain the relationships that I have, and I was like, oh, and I love my brother. But it was a pattern that was set up for me of like not, oh, holly, you save that money, that's yours, you go invest in something that brings you joy. My joy was giving it away, and so I'm having to learn how my joy is actually in keeping it or investing back in myself. So those were some of the things that I've had to heal, recover, move from in my own financial history and I think it's so interesting.
Speaker 1:Just, I don't think a lot of people have heard financial abuse and kind of that relationship and I'm kind of curious if there's anything you feel comfortable with kind of exploring what that could look like. So if someone is listening and they hadn't heard that before, kind of maybe an example of what that could look like. So if someone is listening and they hadn't heard that before, kind of maybe an example of what that could look like yeah, and actually I'm an international bestselling author on a collaborative book called I Am.
Speaker 2:It's about narcissistic abuse recovery in regards to financial abuse. Got it, and so there's Hold on.
Speaker 1:We're just going to like, let's just Applause. I mean, I'm just an international bestselling author on this topic. I just like, I felt like we couldn't keep going without that applause. So keep going, because you just that. Just I'm gonna make my own applause too, because that's so fancy and I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's 13 authors that we're all sharing our story of recovery after financial abuse, and mine showed up in the sense that I actually was the breadwinner and so, for instance, I had a child and my car was broken down. His car was paid for. We agreed that this was important for us to do and to get me a vehicle that works for my child and everything. And so I'm two weeks nursing a child in the car lot and like it's a lot just to look for my vehicle. And we get a vehicle and I'm happy. Well, he is selfishly upset that he doesn't have a new vehicle. We just paid his off. So two weeks later he has to get a new vehicle. Now we have two car payments what, and it's all on me to pay for Right and the burden of it.
Speaker 2:And then one day, because we had they were both Fords I accidentally paid both car payments under one instead of both. So a very easy mistake to make. The shame that was put upon me, as if I was the worst human being in the world for making a double payment on one and forgetting the other which, by the way, I got it figured out and fixed. That still showed up in our divorce stuff conversation like years later a resentment over that one mistake. So it showed up for me in the way that I could not make it. I had to be perfect in every avenue. I did all of the bills and that's not every woman's story. A lot of times they are unaware of what's going on with their financial, but I was the one in charge of everything and the burden that I had to do and the shame and the energy. So there was a lot of covert abuse that was happening with it and it shows. That's just one thought one thing but it was.
Speaker 2:You know, there was patterns that were happening and so one of the insights and this is kind of interesting so he lived with his parents when we met and he had like $20,000 worth of debt he was trying to pay off from his past experience.
Speaker 2:And then he moved in with me and I'm like, oh, I could have maybe seen some of the patterns. And so then I became his parent, so to speak, in that way, and it modeled a lot of stuff of what I experienced from my childhood and we heal through relationships. So it was an opportunity to heal a mother wound, a child wound, and do that within my marriage. And then now, obviously I've learned that, or that's not obvious. I am learning that and implementing a different way. And in fact, last week me and my partner got to talk and have a healthy relationship conversation New partner, amazing, freaking, amazing partner, yes, and had a very neutral conversation around finances and what our future looks like and how he showed me what he can contribute and how he can support what I'm doing, and with zero judgment, just curiosity. And what a difference that is because I've done the healing work.
Speaker 1:Well, and it sounds like he's done some healing work too because For sure To get there, for both people to get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah Is such a interesting place Most people can't have that conversation Exactly and it's so interesting.
Speaker 2:Or they don't have it, and that's probably more likely is they don't even have that conversation. Most women have no clue.
Speaker 1:This is what the woman on wallet cards are going to be about. Like, how do we get you thinking and talking with your partner or solo about money? How do we get you thinking about it? Like, oh my gosh, it's just, it's so interesting when we speak about money on this podcast, like what comes out, you know, and what or what's brought up and what the feelings are around it, and to just go from a place of like perfectionism and if you mess up and that there's so much shame, like the verbal, just abuse of like holding you down to and years later, something that honestly is so small, of a simple mistake that is so understandable, should be let go Right and instead of held over your head. Sorry, I'm just like processing that and I'm like it's giving me the ick. Oh yeah, well, I had the icks for that for sure.
Speaker 2:You're like a million icks, but gratitude that I can see it now, yes, and I can grow from it, and that because of that experience, I can value the healthy relationship I have now True, and build trust with myself, with finances, because I always didn't do that and then now do that, developing through a future relationship or continuing this, developing this new relationship in a way that is healthy, that we get to achieve our goals together and like vision board together, like what do you want to do with this? One of the questions I asked him is what do you envision our retirement to look like? We're not even married yet, but what does that look like? I want to know, before we do that, that we have similar goals and aspirations of what that part of our life might look like.
Speaker 1:And are we in?
Speaker 2:alignment. You know, people just don't have those conversations till like it's past.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or like you're going into it like tomorrow, yeah, and it's kind of interesting to kind of feel that way. What do you feel like is like one of the things, like you're saying you got out, you know, you kind of have transitioned from one to the other. If someone is in that kind of seeing those patterns but they can't see them, is there a way Is it just addressing yourself of like how did I feel in this moment? Like what's maybe like one kind of tactic they could use to see if they're going through something similar, if they're too far in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, one book that like was my light bulb moment, my shift moment, was Healing from Hidden Abuse by Shannon Thomas. It's a very easy read. I watched it with my then three-year-old in the bed at night on a Kindle underneath my covers, read it and it was so enlightening because what it does is it gives you words to the things you're feeling.
Speaker 2:It's not like there's a class on narcissism or covert abuse or coercive control that when you start to see that, then I can go oh, that's triangulation, oh that's manipulation, oh that and it doesn't take. It takes the. It's about me and it's more about their issues and communication and their motivations, but it really doesn't have anything to do with me. So if I can start to give definition to the things that I'm observing, then I can separate myself from that experience and go okay, that's their issue. My issue is that I don't trust myself, or I'm a people pleaser, or I'm a good girl and I'm showing up in a different way and giving of myself too much. Then I need to learn healthy boundaries. I showed up codependent, that was the part I played and that was the part I get to heal, and then I no longer focus on the things they're doing to me, other than feeling empowered, and the things that I can do and communicate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think through therapy that's the main thing that I've learned as well. It's like you can only control yourself and your reactions and your feelings. And if we're always concerned about the way, even just the way someone else makes us feel quote unquote like is it that we're allowing that feeling? Is it that we're not communicating? Like there's some stuff where, if you wanted to keep the relationship, there's obviously healthy relationship coaching that you could both go through individually and then together.
Speaker 1:I've gone through that with my husband. We're still together and it's the most beautiful relationship I'm in and we did go that route, but he was open to that. Yeah, takes two. So, exactly, it was really interesting to see. And again, no comparing, just like understanding, like if that's my perspective on it it's like man, you really have to come back to self each time, even with the collaborations we were talking about, even with your wallet, and I think I mean we all spend the most time with ourselves. So the more you trust yourself, the more your confidence does build. Remember that that's just a habit, it's not like a skill that you have to like. You just practice. Everything's just practice, like the points are made up, you know, or whatever.
Speaker 2:And I'm different than who I was 30 seconds ago Exactly.
Speaker 2:So, releasing my old self from anything I may or may not have done or said or didn't say.
Speaker 2:No, in this moment I get to make a choice and do it differently if I want to, or go.
Speaker 2:I kind of liked that, I liked that version of me, and then I get to repeat that if I want to. But we're ever evolving human beings and we get to release the shame and guilt and anything else that's holding us back from stepping into our authentic mission and purpose and then we can soar. When we do that, I tell you I'm in like quantum leaping vortex shit right now that I'm like I'm along for the ride, but I've done all the work of all the different things and I continue to do it to level up, to grow, to put myself in proximity of people that are doing it too, so we can energetically like do it together. That's what's leaping me and like, oh, and I just I'm like I can't wait to see what next year brings, tomorrow brings, like it is happening in rapid fire because I keep showing up as my authentic self in every capacity that I can, and when I don't, I get to reflect, not judge and go.
Speaker 1:Hmm, how could I do it different? Yeah, and how can I care for myself to show up in the way that I felt best? Like I said, I didn't want to get up early and do all that stuff. But now I get up early, have my coffee, do a full like stretch session I don't have my phone during that time and then I was listening to music.
Speaker 1:I would send fun Love pebbles, love pebbles. I call them glimmers. She's got these pebbles. I'm obsessed and like I would send like songs and then the amount of I just send stuff out, like you're saying, and then removed any expectation of a comeback, oh that's huge. You know, like, and people are like. I'm so sorry I didn't respond. I'm like it was just a song, I just hoped it like I'm connected with it and I just wanted to put it out there into the world. And you're somebody that I love and I trust and I'm building trust and love with and I just I just wanted to share. I don't expect a thing and I think that release that happened for me this year and damn is it nice, oh gosh Releasing expectations.
Speaker 2:There was a coach that I invested in, and this is one thing that I teach in a lot of my coaching is my well-being means more than any outcome, and that comes back to self. So if I'm losing sleep over something, fuck that, my well-being means more than any outcome. If somebody's angry at me, well, my well-being means more than any outcome. So it's not a narcissistic view, it's just more of a getting back to self and going like 10 years from now, will this matter? Like that statement made more to me than the 10 years from now.
Speaker 2:Like I could really anchor in and going okay, if I'm losing sleep over this, no Right. Like no, my wellbeing means more than any outcome, and that allows me to also be open to any outcome. I like that Because my version of what the reality should be may not be even a small sliver of what was really there on the other side of the door that if I opened it up, I'd be like, oh my God, is this mine? Like, yeah, that castle's yours. But like if I thought, oh, I'm only going to get a shack, I would block that blessing and not allow that flow to come in, and so my well-being means more than an outcome, Also helps us receive the blessings that are coming our way.
Speaker 1:Holly, I love you, I love you, you're the best. Yay. I mean I feel like what a great way to start my birthday, like thank you so much for just joining me here. And like, oh, she brought me the cutest card. And like a balloon and these disco, like I said all this, like I'm gonna drink out of this disco cup all day and just to feel that connection. Of course these physical things are wonderful, but honestly, the hug that we Multiple hugs that we've shared today were my favorite part and I just feel so open to, like I said, the future kind of brings for us because we've done so many cool things together.
Speaker 1:And I mean as much as I care about putting money in the walls of women, y'all Holly does. Holly, it's never and I've said this multiple times on our podcast but it's not actually about the money. It's about the confidence, the trust in yourself, the options it gives you. It's about the things that come with money being a tool, and I think, in the way that we've discussed today, that collaboration is a tool. Understanding yourself as a tool, kind of recognizing when you're in the way that we've discussed today, that collaboration is a tool, understanding yourself as a tool, kind of recognizing when you're in a situation that makes you feel uncomfortable is a tool. Like being connected is a tool. Sharing resources is a tool, so like what's in your toolbox kind of vibe, and what can you pull out today to help be creative, solve a problem?
Speaker 1:And I mean, maybe put money in the wallets of another woman. So, holly, if they wanted to put money into your wallet, how would they follow you, hire you? I mean, this might be like 10 minutes long y'all, but where can they get your books? Maybe just give us like a little lowdown and anything that you mentioned we'll also put in the show notes as well.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I'll give you my link tree, because that like kind of plugs you into each thing that I do, because I'm a multi-passionate.
Speaker 2:A link tree is perfect for that, so yeah, so I won't overload you because you might've heard different things, but my book links are there. If you're local to the Louisville area, the WO Network Women Leaders of Louisville is a free group to join. If you're not local, you can still go to our wownetworkcom, so that's w-o-networkcom, and Izzy Nally and myself we do do social media management, so you don't have to be local here, and I do graphic design, personal branding, consulting, help you self-publish your book, podcasts, like all the things. So I generally ask people what do you do? And then I talk about the thing that makes sense to them because I can make somebody's head spin the Rare Woman Collective, which is R-A-A-R-E collective, womancollectivecom, and slash cards, if you want to check out the conversation cards. And, yeah, we'd love for you to join that.
Speaker 2:If you're a white woman that is wanting to learn more about racial equity, you don't have to know a thing to sign up. It's a free group that's online as well. So we'd love and just send me a message. I want to know you Like. Connection is my top core value, so send me a genuine personal message and I will get back to you. I actually respond.
Speaker 1:She does y'all. I mean, if I get a message from Holly, I'm just like oh, she, my girl, I'm going to respond right now. What are we doing? And I don't know. And it's just so cool to make, like I said, like lead together, experience these interesting things you know together, like the changes, the shifts, and open up about our past. You know narcissistic trauma, our past, money trauma, our past, and I'm so excited that you're in my present and excited for the future. So thank you so much for coming on, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for letting me be here.
Speaker 1:This was so much fun and just anytime, anytime, all the time, we'll have her come back and do like a million more things. You guys Don't worry Well? Thank you so much for listening. Moneymakers Now go out there and make that money. If you want to put more money into the wallets of women, like we do, then check out our website, thewomanownedwalletcom, and we can't wait to continue the conversation on our social media. So definitely follow us on our Instagram at womanownedwallet, and on TikTok at womanownedwallet. You can support us by following our podcast on Apple, google and Spotify, and don't forget to leave us a review. Thank you for listening to Woman Owned Wallet, the podcast.
